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Post by Mr. Wolf on Sept 19, 2006 21:11:40 GMT -5
So, Snow and I own a bunch of fairytale type crap as well as the Fable comics, rp source material if you will *makes a note to send all the damn receipts from barnes and noble to Calista for room expenses*
We have the Brothers Grimm collection, Bullifinch's Mythology, Mother Goose collection, and a number of literary critiques of fable stories and the devices behind them.
Everyone has heard, im sure , that the original Grimm tales were much more....well grim. Babies getting eaten, people getting raped, ghastly horrid things going on. But what shocked me the most is how.........well really utterly mind bogglingly stupid some fairy tales are*L*
Maybe something just got lost in translation over the years, I dunno. Anyway, I present to you, the first of what I found to be a truly perplexing nursery rhyme:
"OH DEAR"
Dear, Dear! what can the matter be?
Two old women got up in the apple-tree
One came down, and the other stayed till Saturday
I shit you not, that is an exact quote from the mother goose collection*L*
it just bothers me in so many ways! whats the point of that story! its not interesting, its not entertaining, theres no moral to be found there.........and most infuriatingly it starts to rhyme and then suddenly stops! as if mocking you.
and.....WHY DID SHE STAY TILL SATURDAY! WHAT IS WRONG WITH HER!
its driving me craaaazy*G*
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dav0r
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Post by dav0r on Sept 19, 2006 21:31:30 GMT -5
It's Darth Vader trying to use his wily charisma to get you to turn to the dark side!
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Post by minmaxticus on Sept 19, 2006 23:16:53 GMT -5
-Conan wanders over to said old lady- "You've gaht to geet dowhn! Raight nohw!"
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Post by Rose on Sept 20, 2006 2:05:45 GMT -5
hrm. upon further pondering, I have decided that the the mother goose rhyme does indeed rhyme.
I realized something: the author must be Southern.
If you reed the rhyme as I would actually say it ouloud were I not paying attention to keeping my accent in check, it would sound like this.
Dear, dear, whut can tha matter be?
Two ohd women got up in tha apple-tree
One came down, and tha other stayed til Saterdee.
I can't explain why the retarded women are sleeping in trees, but that solves the missing rhyme! *G*
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Kuro
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Post by Kuro on Sept 20, 2006 2:12:18 GMT -5
Rose's answer makes alot of sense... disturblingly....
but that is one odd rhyme to begin with..
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jon
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Tuesday 6:00
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Post by jon on Sept 20, 2006 4:03:10 GMT -5
she's senile
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Post by secretsquirrely on Sept 20, 2006 6:57:34 GMT -5
that reminds me of the ubber famous:
"hey diddle-diddle, the cat played the fiddle
the cow jumped over the moon
the little dog laughed to see such a sport
and the dish ran away with the spoon"
the poem rhymes....but it sounds more like an advertisement for opium than anything morally fixated...and yet...i like it
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Post by Tinkerbell on Sept 20, 2006 7:14:00 GMT -5
...............
it's a.....conspiracy
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Post by Mr. Wolf on Sept 20, 2006 8:48:51 GMT -5
-Conan wanders over to said old lady- "You've gaht to geet dowhn! Raight nohw!" Best-Roleplay-Idea-EVER! *L*, or, possibly the dullest story ever pitched for conan 3. hehe "Conan, the negotiator" |
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Post by ¤†Herzleid†¤ on Sept 20, 2006 10:32:03 GMT -5
Two things:
1) The non-rhyming nature of the last phrase in the rhyme.
Since all the rhymes and stories collected under the term "Mother Goose" were originally passed on by oral tradition rather than written down in convenient books you can never quite be sure they're exactly the way they were originally.
Secondly one should remember that a great lot of them were collected and written down as long ago as the 17th century. The English spoken in England in the 1600's wasn't the same we speak today, and as such, I actually think deathrose is closest with her guess except they weren't southern, but they were 17th century people!
And thirdly, even though most "Mother Goose" nursery rhymes that are known in the US today came from collections made in England before the emigration, there might be some taken from other places as well, and those may have been subject of sub-par translation!
2) The gruesome nature of the stories
Not all of the stories started out intended as "children's" stories. Way back when, in a time without TV, radio or even papers and magazines, entertainment was limited to songs, tales and maybe simple burlesque plays. Hence there were fairy tales for adults just as much as children, where the adult stories indeed were much more adult in nature.
There's also the aspect on the tales that they were not only for amusement, but also to promote rules, social conventions, warnings and norms for conduct. Similar to the greek fables as well which always had a moral of the story.
Later stories, tales and even nursery rhymes can also be said to carry covet political and satirical points, in a time where you couldn't oppose yourself to the forces of power and remain in good health. By songs and metaphorical tales you could get the message across and gather in opposition, without attracting the authorities, or at least leaving them without means to interfere since it couldn't be proven a story about an ox and a hen was in fact about the king and queen.......
Eh, sorry about the long babble... but this shit is interesting! ;D
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Post by Puddles on Sept 20, 2006 12:22:31 GMT -5
Maybe the old lady died up the tree - by Saturday she fell out? Who knows but Ive got that in a book of my own and oddly enough never actually questioned it!
There are more "recent" (for lack of a better term) rhymes like Ring a Ring of Roses which is a song about dying from the plague and Mary Mary Quite Contrary is about a load of dead children buried in the garden!
However whilst I'm on this rant...a friend of mines child has just started school and rather than teaching them the traditional:
Baa baa black sheep, have you any wool?
Yes sir yes sir three bags full
One for the master and one for the dame
And one for the little boy who lives down the lane
He has been taught...
Moo moo Jessie cow, have you any milk?
Yes sir yes sir three jugs full
One for the Master and one for the Dame
And one for everyone to make us nice and fat
Political correctness gone over board - although the "fat" comment could still be held up for debate if you wanted to be that picky over the matter.
I once read a Russian version of Cinderella which was made in to a ballet by the Birmingham National Ballet Company (UK)...pointless information but it was a good show..... in order for the "ugly sisters" foot to fit into the glass slipper her mother hacked of her toes with a butchers knife and it was the sight of all the blood that caused the Prince to leave however the mother (at this point seems rather stupid) called in Cinderella to clean up the blood and remove the dismembered toes and the Prince caught sight of her.
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Post by ¤†Herzleid†¤ on Sept 20, 2006 13:49:52 GMT -5
O.o That's the only way I've ever heard Cinderella told! *lol* I love that part, when one sister cuts her toes off, and the other her heel 
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Post by Mr. Wolf on Sept 20, 2006 22:08:08 GMT -5
See you can all list all the stories behind stuff like ring around the rosy, or the political messages of cinderella! Thats what perplexes me so, most of these stories have SOME kind of little reasoning behind them.
Except some crazy old bitch who stayed up in a tree till saturday! But it MUST mean something or why would they keep it in the collection! I fear its sphynxian words contain some great secret that holds the fate of all the world within somehow!
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dav0r
New Member
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Post by dav0r on Sept 20, 2006 22:26:33 GMT -5
'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
'Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!'
He took his vorpal sword in hand:
Long time the manxome foe he sought--
So rested he by the Tumtum tree,
And stood awhile in thought.
And as in uffish thought he stood,
The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
And burbled as it came!
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.
'And hast thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
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Post by x.XFoXxxy.Xx on Sept 21, 2006 4:31:30 GMT -5
I agree with puddles maybe she did die and due to gas she fell out of the tree on Saturday! heys were can you get or read the grimm tales i wouldn't mind giveing them a read are they online at all??
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